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Mar 8th, 2021, 5:02am 
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   Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once
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   Author  Topic: Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  (Read 565 times)
UnderworldCircle
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Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« on: Dec 7th, 2020, 10:54am »
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Hello.
 
I am using a trial version of the application PDFtoMusicPro and I am unsure if this is a feature or not, but after a successful import of a PDF file, it appears that the PDFtoMusicPro application is only able to play one cleff at a time (starting with the Treble Cleff, then moving on to the Bass Cleff, then moving onto Treble Cleff below that, and so on) instead of playing BOTH Treble Cleff and Bass Cleff at the same time as it normally should. A friend managed to have the application tested on his computer, and it successfully played both the Treble and Bass cleff at the same time during play-back sequence, but it is only on my device that it seems to be unable to do that. It is unclear to me as to whether this is a bug, or whether
the software application settings need's manual input and adjustment to be able to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at the same time, instead of a single Cleff at a time.
 
I would appreciate some insight on how this problem can be fixed.
 
Thank you.
 
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Hola.
 
Estoy usando una versión de prueba de la aplicación PDFtoMusicPro y no estoy seguro de si es una función o no, pero después de una importación exitosa de un archivo PDF, parece que la aplicación PDFtoMusicPro solo puede reproducir una clave a la vez (comenzando con Treble Cleff, luego pasando a Bass Cleff, luego pasando a Treble Cleff debajo de eso, y así sucesivamente) en lugar de tocar AMBOS Treble Cleff y Bass Cleff al mismo tiempo como normalmente debería. Un amigo logró que la aplicación se probara en su computadora, y tocó con éxito las claves de agudos y graves al mismo tiempo durante la secuencia de reproducción, pero es solo en mi dispositivo que parece que no puede hacer eso. No tengo claro si se trata de un error de software o si
la configuración de la aplicación de software necesita la entrada y el ajuste manuales para poder tocar tanto Treble como Bass Cleff al mismo tiempo, en lugar de un solo Cleff a la vez (sospecho que probablemente sea el último).
 
Agradecería alguna idea de cómo se puede resolver este problema
 
Gracias.
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Salut.
 
J'utilise une version d'essai de l'application PDFtoMusicPro et je ne sais pas si c'est une fonction ou non, mais après une importation réussie d'un fichier PDF, il semble que l'application PDFtoMusicPro ne puisse jouer qu'une seule touche à la fois (en commençant par Treble Cleff, puis aller à Bass Cleff, puis aller à Treble Cleff en dessous, et ainsi de suite) au lieu de jouer à LA FOIS Treble Cleff et Bass Cleff en même temps que vous le devriez normalement. Un ami a fait tester l'application sur son ordinateur, et il a réussi à jouer les clés de sol et de basse en même temps pendant la séquence de lecture, mais ce n'est que sur mon appareil qu'il ne semble pas pouvoir le faire. Je ne sais pas s'il s'agit d'une erreur logicielle ou si
la configuration de l'application logicielle nécessite une entrée et un réglage manuels afin de pouvoir jouer à la fois à la fois Treble et Bass Cleff, plutôt que juste une Cleff à la fois (je suppose que c'est probablement la dernière).
 
J'apprécierais toutes les idées sur la façon dont ce problème peut être résolu
 
Merci.
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bubu42
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #1 on: Dec 7th, 2020, 11:09am »
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From what you're describing, the program hasn't recognized the bracket/brace joining both staves (treble+bass) and is apparently playing them as if there were only one staff, with plenty of clef changes.
Could you join the .pdf file so that we can give it a try ? I'm not 100% sure about this, but there might be some settings to change so that things play as they should.
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UnderworldCircle
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once   OCCinematic.pdf
« Reply #2 on: Dec 7th, 2020, 12:06pm »
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Thank you for your response.
 
Here's the first sample page for the PDF File I am attempting to convert.
 
The first noticeable problem is obviously that the the beginning of the song is mostly silent, as that is where the bass notes are suppose to be audible but they are not, as the software only recognizes the Treble first before moving on down to the bass individually rather than both.
 
The brackets joining the staves in the PDF file are clearly visible (at least to us) so I'm unsure as to why the program is unable to recognize it. At first I thought a setting must be enabled for it to read the Treble and Bass both at once but I don't think there is one, or I can't find it.
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #3 on: Dec 7th, 2020, 12:21pm »
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El Pdf que ha adjuntado no es un Pdf vectorial editable. Es una imagen. Por lo tanto, no se puede procesar con Pdf to Music.
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UnderworldCircle
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #4 on: Dec 7th, 2020, 12:56pm »
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Gracias por su respuesta.
 
Lamentablemente, este foro no me permite subir el archivo completo original ya que se considera demasiado grande.
 
He creado un lugar alternativo para descargar el archivo PDF completo sin la restricción de tamaño que se encuentra en el enlace que se proporciona a continuación. Tiene un tamaño de 6 MB.
 
https://www.mediafire.com/file/gonqpqatjmzinub/Owl_City_-_Cinematic_%252 8Piano_Cover%2529.pdf/file
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bubu42
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #5 on: Dec 7th, 2020, 1:04pm »
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Same conclusion as Sr. Oliveira : this file cannot be processed by PDFTM. Actually, there are two sorts of .pdf files. One contains vectorial data (lines and other types of surfaces) the other contains bitmap data (obtained via a scanner device, for example). PDFTM has been designed to process the first type only.
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UnderworldCircle
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #6 on: Dec 7th, 2020, 1:43pm »
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What method do I use to convert that into the right PDF file type?
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #7 on: Dec 7th, 2020, 3:59pm »
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on Dec 7th, 2020, 1:43pm, UnderworldCircle wrote:
What method do I use to convert that into the right PDF file type?
Well, there's no easy method... So far, the only program I've used is Sharpeye, a musical OCR. It does a decent job, but has quite a few limitations (and I wonder whether it is still updayed).
You know, PDFTM is quite good on .pdf files exported by musical software and containing vectorial data instead of pictures. Long ago, Myriad developed a musical OCR : look for OmER on the site and test the trial version (I rhink it's limited to one page only), but honestly I find it is way behind Sharpeye.
There's also Smartscore (I think it's now a part of Finale), but I've never tried it.
You could also have a go with Audiveris (freeware) but I wish you are luckier than me. Most of the time, the result scores were really messy.
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #8 on: Dec 7th, 2020, 4:30pm »
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Si la idea es que el programa reproduzca la musica de ese .Pdf es posible que funcione con PhotoScore. Creo que dispone de un trial de un mes.
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UnderworldCircle
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #9 on: Dec 8th, 2020, 8:40am »
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on Dec 7th, 2020, 3:59pm, bubu42 wrote:

 PDFTM is quite good on .pdf files exported by musical software and containing vectorial data instead of pictures.

 
I've used the software 'AnthemScore' in order to transcribe piano pieces which I want to then convert into MIDI. It has a 'convert' to midi' function but it is isn't very good but alternatively it also has a convert to PDF function, of which is much more accurate. I am attempting to put the PDF version of the AnthemScore conversion through PDFTM in order to get the more accurate MIDI function
 
I'm not sure if you saw it or not, but here is the full PDF piece I responded to Oliveira, the one which I had posted first was just a sample piece, I'm not sure if this is the required PDF version:
 
https://www.mediafire.com/file/gonqpqatjmzinub/Owl_City_-_Cinematic_%252 8Piano_Cover%2529.pdf/file
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Andre_B
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #10 on: Dec 8th, 2020, 9:15am »
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Hello!
 
Complete rewrite of my earlier reply:
 
The one-page pdf you first attached is not a vector-PDF. How did you create it from the full 8pages version?
I have seen cases where a "reprint" through some "pdf creators" (there are plenty of these nowadays) had apparently lost the "vector-PDF" quality.  
 
The full 8 pages version from the "mediafire" environment (which I hesitated to install, it's so strange as a method) are properly vector-PDF.  
 
But while the braces are clearly visible by the human eye, PDFtoMusic fails to recognize them as such.  
 
It might be that AnthemScore did not created vector-braces as it should, but perhaps only graphical ones.  
 
Now, I'm not sure if the braces are what PDFtoMusic determines as a system-separator. There are pieces where systems have several groups, with braces for piano, brackets for choirs, and even isolated staves. And all is generally well-recognized.  
 
Using the "corrections" menu, and the "staves" option, one sees that the piece is considered with one-staff systems. I think this can be edited, but I never had to do it.  
 
 
 
   
 
 
« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2020, 9:46am by Andre_B » offline

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bubu42
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #11 on: Dec 8th, 2020, 9:41am »
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Ah, that file is much better ! I downloaded it and opened it into PDFTM. In the first attempt, I got the same result as you described : the staves were played one after the other (e.g. 1st staff with a treble clef, then 1st staff with a bass clef, 2nd staff with a treble clef, etc.). So, I closed the file.
Then, I looked inside the "correction" menu and checked the "allow braces to create groups" option. I re-opend the file and groups were created. By the way, the number of measures in the whole score was lower, which makes sense.
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once   Owl_City_-_Cinematic__Piano_Cover_.myr
« Reply #12 on: Dec 8th, 2020, 9:50am »
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Ooops, I forgot to attach the file. Here is the file I exported from PDFTM. This forum doesn't allow .xml attachments, so I chose a .myr format. It can be opened in Harmony Assistant (you can download a trial version if necessary, it's free).
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UnderworldCircle
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once  
« Reply #13 on: Dec 8th, 2020, 10:14am »
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Thank you BuBu, although I tried what you said, the playback still only played one stave at a time instead of both Treble and Bass however, the good news is I discovered a setting called 'Staves and Systems' on PDFTM in the 'Corrections' Menu which allowed me to manually join them together and the playback sound has now been properly corrected, but the way its displayed on MuseScore isn't correct.
 
Upon export from PDFTM, it asks me whether to export '1 Part' or '2 Parts'. If I choose to export one part, putting through playback on Musescore results in only the Treble Cleff being audible, but not the Bass Cleff.  
 
If exported with 'Both 1 Part and 2 Part' together, it will be played back correctly on MuseScore, but the amount of staves will be doubled - being displayed incorrectly when there should be only 2 staves, not 4.
« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2020, 10:55am by UnderworldCircle » offline
UnderworldCircle
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Re:  Unable to play both Treble and Bass Cleff at once   MuseScore.png
« Reply #14 on: Dec 8th, 2020, 10:56am »
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This is the problem of what it looks like from MuseScore. PDFTM is displaying it correctly, but MuseScore is not.  
 
EDIT: Nevermind, I found an option to disable split-clave on the MuseScore Software. Yes, I think everything is now in order. thank you very much
« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2020, 6:03pm by UnderworldCircle » offline

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