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        General >> Melody Assistant / Harmony Assistant >>  Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
        
(Message started by: wordmuse on Jun 9^th, 2021, 6:33am)

Title: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by wordmuse on Jun 9^th, 2021, 6:33am

The dynamic markings (ppp, pp, p, etc.) have an attribute that applies the marking to one or more staves. But I don't really understand this very well. I mean I get one of the possible values: apply to staff only. But what are the others?

- apply all to merged staves
- apply to all staves in the group
- apply to all staves

Also - is there any way for me to choose a default? Namely to have the marking apply only to the staff only? Right now it defaults to all merged staves.

Thanks,

~ Bal

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by Sylvain Machefert on Jun 9^th, 2021, 7:31am

Hello wordmuse,

If you click the "?" bottom left, you'll get the help page about dynamics.

Merged staves are the way to write two melodies graphically on the same staff, but writed on two. E.g. one for alti with beams downside, one for soprani with beams upside.
It's very useful if both melodies have some different note length playing at the same time (e.g. fourth+fourth on soprani, dotted fourth+eight on alti.
The group is marked by joining several staves with a {. The best example is piano with right hand staff + left hand staff. In orchestral music, you can join the 3 clarinets with { then apply dynamics only for clarinets without applying to the other instruments.
All staves : I think it's clear ;)

I'm using a beta version and I found a bug on displaying cresc. and decresc. I noticed Guillion Bros for that. By the way, I asked them to remember the choice "apply to" for next dynamics added to the score until this choice is changed again.

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by Lagaffe on Jun 9^th, 2021, 7:32am

Les différences de volume entre nuances n'est pas très sensible par défaut
On peut éditer les nuances pour jouer sur l'effet de volume
Attention à bien rester cohérent avec les éventuelles valeurs crescendo

Par défaut la nuance s'applique à toutes les portées, je ne sais pas s'il est possible de changer ce réglage par défaut.

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by wordmuse on Jun 9^th, 2021, 9:05am

Thank you both.

I want the dynamics to apply only to the single staff that it is attached to. What this currently means is that every time I set a dynamic marking, I have to open the dialog and make sure the attribute is set to my preference. It is not a smooth or fun experience and slows me down.

Still, at least I can do it.

On playing my music, I'm not sure if I can really hear a difference. But if there is a real difference, I want to make sure that I capture it.

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by Sylvain Machefert on Jun 9^th, 2021, 9:42am

on 06/09/21 at 09:05:27, wordmuse wrote:

I want the dynamics to apply only to the single staff that it is attached to. What this currently means is that every time I set a dynamic marking, I have to open the dialog and make sure the attribute is set to my preference. It is not a smooth or fun experience and slows me down.

That's why I asked for an enhancement of this :)

Quote:

On playing my music, I'm not sure if I can really hear a difference. But if there is a real difference, I want to make sure that I capture it.

As explained in the doc, the dynamics apply a % on the notes.
Each note can have it's own velocity (from 0 to 127), an instrument can have a "velocity offset" (to quickly raise up/down the velocity of his notes by a constant value).

Dynamics are applied last, juste before playing/rendering.

Enter four notes, by default they are at velocity=64.
Apply a crescendo from 80% to 120%.
Edit the not, you still see velocity=64
If you show the velocity curve, for each note you see a red bar at 64, and a yellow which represent the velocity after dynamic is applied. The yellow bar doesn't take into account the velocity offset of the instrument, but the audio rendring does.

Last but not least, velocity can't be greater than 127 nor lower than 0. (I don't know the velocity depth effect of the instrument...)
So if your notes are at velocity = 120 and you apply a dynamic 120% which gives 144, the note will be played at velocity = 127, unless you have a negative velocity offset on the instrument.

Title: Re: Velocity saturation
Post by Tony Deff on Jun 10^th, 2021, 3:32pm

Sylvain,

Thank you for clarifying the action of the red & yellow velocity bars.

It is so easy to achieve velocity saturation by assigning a crescendo > 200%, unless a very low note velocity is written.

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by wordmuse on Jun 10^th, 2021, 9:45pm

I think I'm approaching a sense of this. If my the most recent marking is p (with a velocity of 60) and I want to have a crescendo to f (with a velocity of 120), then I would set the start of the crescendo to 60 and the end of it to 120 so as to get the smooth transition that I want.

Does this state things correctly?

Thanks everyone!

~ Bal

Title: Re: Crescendo/decrescendo start values
Post by Tony Deff on Jun 11^th, 2021, 8:07am

When you place a fixed dynamic mark to a note and then follow it with a crescendo ("hairpin") or decrescendo, the start value (the percentage velocity alteration) is automatically set.
You may have to adjust the end value to suit your requirement.

In the example below, the start value was automatically set at 60% because of the p.
The end-value was 75%, which was manually changed to 120%.

The start value of the following decrescendo was automatically set at 120% because of the f dynamic.
(If the f had been omitted, or un-ticked as not Played, the decrescendo would have, by default, started at the level that the crescendo finished).

The Schwarzenegger dynamic ^ at the beginning of the decrescendo shows that it is still possible to temporarily saturate the velocity.

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by wordmuse on Jun 11^th, 2021, 8:20am

Thank you very much, Tony! I think I have a much clearer understanding.

Now - if Myriad would only fix things so that the dynamics defaulted to being attached to the staff I was working on and allowed me to change this default as needed, that would be fantastic!

~ Bal

Title: Fixed dynamic markings
Post by Tony Deff on Jun 11^th, 2021, 9:41am

Of the 15 marks available on the toolbar, only 8 of them are dynamically active.
(They can be aligned with Edit > Select > Dynamics and Edit > Align, but as you can see below, the last four were not even included in the selection process).

As can be seen by comparing the yellow bars to the straight line, some effort is made over the last stages to achieve a logarithmic response.

Title: Re: Dynamic markings across multiple staves
Post by Tony Deff on Jun 11^th, 2021, 10:23am

The meaning of an fff marking on a Timpani staff is pretty obvious - Bash very hard!

But what if the fff marking was only at the top of the score and applied to all the orchestra?
(Or rather, tells the Conductor to wave his arms a bit wilder)

What is the implication for the Triangle player and the violinists, who cannot hope to match the power output of the Timpani?

That is where not only the volume settings of the Mixer are useful, but the Note Velocity settings of individual parts.
Thus universal dynamics can be proportionally applied.

Apart from the mixer settings and the settings of your PC / audio system, the term Volume should not be used.
No instrument can be played louder without changing the harmonic structure, for which the Harmony Assistant terminology is Velocity.
A rare exception might be the sound of an approaching or receding player.

A trick I sometimes use to emphasise the first beat of a measure is to set the first Note Velocity = 72.
It may also be useful to emphasise the start of a repeated note.

Conversely, a lower Note Velocity can be used to simulate a player having taken a breathe or playing a weak note.
With very low bass notes, a purer tone can be achieved with a low velocity.

Title: Re: Dynamic marking defaults to This Bar Only?
Post by Tony Deff on Jun 11^th, 2021, 12:23pm

on 06/11/21 at 08:20:41, wordmuse wrote:

if ... only ... the dynamics defaulted to being attached to the staff I was working on ...

If you modify some dynamic(s) to be active on one staff only, you can then select it/them (high-light the bars, Edit > Select),
copy via Cntrl_C, point at any bar in any staff and paste via Cntrl_V.

These will then retain the required property (and alignment!)

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by Sylvain Machefert on Jun 11^th, 2021, 2:38pm

For the dynamics applying to the whole orchestra, from tiangle to violin, don't forget that's a percentage of the note's velocity.

Say the triangle doesn't have a lot of dynamic vs violin has a lot, you can set all triangle notes to velocity=80 and let the dynamic apply their percentage, while you can set violin's note to velocity=20 when pianissimo, and 120 when fortissimo, and the dynamic will apply to theses values.

Title: Re: Dynamic marking defaults to This Bar Only?
Post by wordmuse on Jun 11^th, 2021, 8:38pm

on 06/11/21 at 12:23:41, Tony Deff wrote:

Yes - I do that. It's a very useful workaround. But it's still somewhat annoying because, every so often and certainly at the final proofreading, I have to do a visual check with each instance of the dynamic markings to make sure that I did it this way all through the piece.

And on my computer, there is rarely an instance where applying dynamics to all instruments at once sounds right to me. A trumpet at f sounds louder to my ear (as well as to my wife's and music teacher's ears) on my system than a clarinet at f. So I have to tweak the velocities on each staff to get the sounds I want.

~ Bal

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by Sylvain Machefert on Jun 17^th, 2021, 3:34pm

on 06/09/21 at 07:31:34, Sylvain Machefert wrote:

Bug not reproduced by Olivier, I'll check in next beta version.

The settings will be keeped in memory between insertion of two dynamics, so this will speed up your writing in HA 9.9.4 :)

Title: Re: Could this about the dynamic markings be explained?
Post by Sylvain Machefert on Jul 25^th, 2021, 12:13pm

Hi!
I did a quick test with HA 9.9.4 RC2 version, and it works.
Setting is keep in memory so you check it once (for the first dynamic you write, and then all next dynamics will have the same.