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Topic: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5 (Read 15919 times) |
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #15 on: Feb 7th, 2022, 9:29am » |
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Can you join an example of file which may produce the bug on HA > 994 and I'll give it a try in 995c.
There was some fixes in microtonals, but I don't know if VS probelm disapperead. I didn't tried VS with microtonal yet (only once a while ago).
Fixes were mostly on accidental in a bar that were not reset in next bar, or things like that.
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COMALite J
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5  LoveTagETthenJI.myr
« Reply #16 on: Feb 7th, 2022, 11:29pm » |
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Here ya go. This is a short one that should demonstrate it.
One thing it occurred to me just now to try is to download and install the latest version of Melody Player, and see if the bug affects that as well. That should use the same playback subsystem as HA/MA, complete with VS, right?
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COMALite J
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #17 on: Feb 7th, 2022, 11:49pm » |
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Just verified that Melody Player 6.6.5 32-bit seems to work fine with Virtual Singer staves using microtonal accidentals, so the problem appears to be outside the playback subsystem (assuming they use the same one). It could be a conflict with the Gold SoundBase, perhaps?
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5 LoveTagETthenJI.ogg
« Reply #18 on: Feb 8th, 2022, 12:29am » |
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Conflict with Gold, no.
Here is what I get in HA 995c
Do you have a simpler demo file? i.e. one staff, exagerated microtonal values, and comments explaining what you expect (e.g. expect frequency for each note).
To know if your file is properly rendered or not, I have to know how barbershop work. I see some sharp that, to my ears, seems to be not interpreted, but I can also hear some slight differences between bars, so I assume this work. But is it good or not?
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #19 on: Feb 8th, 2022, 12:35am » |
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I did a simple test, yet without VS, and noticed 4 bugs. I report it to Myriad.
- If you place a micro-tonal B after a B flat, the inserted note is B flat + micro instead of B + micro. Solution is to force natural height (A4, B4, C5...), force accidental to "Natural" and check "Hide accidental". Should be done internally.
- Transposing by a semi-tone a A + 1/4 micro can produce a A# + 1/4 instead of a A + 3/4
- moving notes up and down a semi-tone / octave using Ctrl+ and Ctrl- (edit > ?/Transpose) can result in micro-tonal accidental vertical unexpected shift
- horizontal position of micro-tonal accidentals doesn't follow "config display" settings for accidentals, and collisions are not avoided in chords
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| « Last Edit: Feb 8th, 2022, 1:45am by Sylvain Machefert » |
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COMALite J
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #20 on: Feb 8th, 2022, 3:21am » |
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on Feb 8th, 2022, 12:29am, Sylvain Machefert wrote:Conflict with Gold, no.
Here is what I get in HA 995c
Do you have a simpler demo file? i.e. one staff, exagerated microtonal values, and comments explaining what you expect (e.g. expect frequency for each note).
To know if your file is properly rendered or not, I have to know how barbershop work. I see some sharp that, to my ears, seems to be not interpreted, but I can also hear some slight differences between bars, so I assume this work. But is it good or not? |
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If you heard anything at all when playing that with Virtual Singer active, then the bug has apparently been resolved. The bug is that Virtual Singer is completely silent on staves containing even one microtonal accidental of any kind, any tuning offset value (I think even zero), even on the notes without microtonals.
Virtual Singer does say “Calculating # human voices” almost as normal, where “#” is double the number of staves-with-lyrics (8 in this case — it should equal that number of staves [4 in this case]), yet no sound at all emits from the Virtual Singer (any instrumental-only staves would play normally, but there are none in my sample file). The meters for those staves in the Mixer display never show even one green horizontal bar while playing if Virtual Singer is on.
If Virtual Singer is off then the underlying specified Staff Instrument plays normally.
Be sure you have Virtual Singer on and play it. If you hear anything, then the bug is at least partly resolved.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 8th, 2022, 3:26am by COMALite J » |
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #21 on: Feb 8th, 2022, 10:41am » |
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If you listen the ogg I exported, VS is singing.
The ogg sound the same that I heard when I played your file.
My computer is too fast to have the time to see "calculating # voices" message 
So the VS bug is over.
I also tried with the 4-bugs demo file I sent to Olivier, VS sings "la la la" exactly as instruments play, with the same bug I noticed, but VS sing.
So the bugs I discovered affect VS as well as instruments, bug VS sings.
The bug is not related to VS, but to how HA doesn't reset a sharp or flat when adding a microtonal after it in the same bar.
So you can go for HA 995c, and just be careful when adding a turkish coma after a sharp/flat on the same note in the same bar.
If you are concerned by this bug, here is how to bypass it : add a natural to note at the same time you add a turkish coma, and hide the accidental.
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COMALite J
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #22 on: Feb 9th, 2022, 1:24am » |
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Code:on Feb 8th, 2022, 10:41am, Sylvain Machefert wrote:If you listen the ogg I exported, VS is singing.
The ogg sound the same that I heard when I played your file.
My computer is too fast to have the time to see "calculating # voices" message :D
So the VS bug is over.
I also tried with the 4-bugs demo file I sent to Olivier, VS sings "la la la" exactly as instruments play, with the same bug I noticed, but VS sing.
So the bugs I discovered affect VS as well as instruments, bug VS sings.
The bug is not related to VS, but to how HA doesn't reset a sharp or flat when adding a microtonal after it in the same bar.
So you can go for HA 995c, and just be careful when adding a turkish coma after a sharp/flat on the same note in the same bar.
If you are concerned by this bug, here is how to bypass it : add a natural to note at the same time you add a turkish coma, and hide the accidental. |
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Thanks. I hadn’t seen the attachment before (tiny text in the header of the comment).
I’ve just installed HA 9.9.5c (32-bit/i86). My file still wouldn’t play in VS, at first. Then I tried selecting all measures past №3, and [Ctrl]+[Shift]+[D]eleting them so that only the untuned version of the tag was present. Then it played just fine, as I thought it might. I then [Ctrl]+[Z] undid the deletion and played again, and this time it still worked! I wasn’t expecting that. Could it be that simple? So I tried it on a longer piece, and again it played when I deleted all but the first measure, but undoing the deletion made it silent again. So I have no idea what the heck is happening here.
When I went back to the Love Tag thing which had just worked, now it wasn’t working anymore. Silent again!
I tried deleting just the “La”s at the end (which were tests of tuning a couple chords in various ways that I’d added to the end of that), and now it worked again, and when I undid the deletion it stopped working. But even when it was working, while all the notes were heard, only the Lead note (2nd staff down) was showing as working in the Mixer. The other three weren’t showing even a single green bar at any time. The Lead staff is the only one that, until the “La”s, had no Turkish Commas since it just holds the tonic note of the scale throughout which needs no tuning.
The doubling of the Virtual Singer voice count is still happening, which makes me wonder if the problem could be that it’s calculating both a normal and a “flipped” sound wave of each VS staff if a microtonal accidental is present anywhere? Those would, of course, exactly cancel each other out, producing total silence.
The VS bug is not over (at least not in 32-bit Win32 i86 — is yours 32-bit or 64-bit? Windows or Mac or Linux?). Still unusable for me. :'(
The bug you describe seems to be an issue for using Turkish Commas and microtonal accidentals as separate accidentals distinct from the regular ♭♮♯ accidentals. I’m just using them for microtuning, so that “bug” is how I want them to work.
I can see how, for non-Western music, that’d be wrong. They should be treated like the standard accidentals, as in they carry through to the bar line on repeated instances of the same note.
Maybe add a special custom microtuning symbol Mark/Ornament (one for sharpening the pitch, one for flattening it?) for purposes such as mine where they’re not really accidentals, but are instead just a way to specify a tuning offset manually?
Though really, the solution I’d like to see for both purposes is something I suggested over a dozen years ago: have a Fine Tuning entry in the basic note parameters, and allow it to accept a real number (not just an integer) so that it can tune to the maximum resolution of the underlying playback engine (default MIDI pitch bends [±1 12tET semitone range] can do 40.96× the resolution of whole ¢, for example, and that can be doubled to 81.92× with a SysEx [reducing the range to ±½ 12-tET semitone], plus the more recent MIDI Tuning Spec is double that or quadruple the default MIDI Pitch Bend method — presumably digital instrument export can also do a much finer resolution than ±1¢).
Microtuning for just intonation and microtonal accidentals are two very different and distinct concepts. My Fine Tuning idea would simply apply the specified tuning offset to the calculated frequency from the specified note’s staff position plus any accidental. Any additional effect that would affect pitch, such as Vibrato, Guitar Pull/Release marks, Pitch Curve editing, “scooping” in Virtual Singer, etc. would center around that calculated pitch including any specified Fine Tuning. In other words, the base pitch of the note given its staff position, key signature, and accidental (including microtonal accidentals) would be calculated first, Fine Tuning (which could be negative) added to that, and that would be considered the actual base frequency of the note, onto which any other pitch-altering effects would be added after that.
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #23 on: Feb 9th, 2022, 11:41am » |
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Hi, I'm running 64-bit version on Windows 10.
So, for the VS bug, I recommand you to write to Myriad, joining the love tag file and decribed the process you writed here.
not working, delete, working, undo, working once but note another time...
For microtonals, I don't know about Just Intonation, Mean Tone and others, but I know about arabic and turkish as I had opportunity to take singing lessons by Turks singers, and spend weeks in a festival with musicians from Middle East.
I did a try of 17 persian tones but I never took persian music lessons (even if I heard a bit in the festival), and I'm not sure of the result it produce.
I several times tried to read works about micro-tuning in some regions, but it often comes with sophisticated calculations, theories, and rarely with a clear table of frequencies, of cents to add/substract to nearest 12-TET note... headache -> close the PDF file and forget it.
There is no "two-symbols" # + koma, b - koma, there is only one symbol (which make look like a b+something, 3-lines #...) and may be played more than a semi-tone, i.e. 3/4, 8/9 of a tone.
At least in Arabic, Turkish and all maqam world, a microtonal accidental (displayed with turkish, arabic and other symbols system) is always applied to the natural note, even if this is note is # or b by the clef. So the bug I described.
I agree you on the fact that accidentals should not be ornaments, but real accidentals, in the "accidental" tab of "Edit note" dialog (double click a note),
even if the accidental name is "µ" where we can define the offset and the displayed symbol, like we can do in key accidentals.
The symbol system should be global to a document.
I know this would be a huge task for developers, but I also know that would solve a lot of problem
a note is # or µ, never both.
key accidental and in-bar accidental managing is already existing
alignment, spacing, collisions.. all display parameters
transposition (clearly, the hardest part)
finding µ-accidentals in MyrScript... with Danièl we worked on a fast keyboard music input, with good managment of accidentals, but not at all for µ-accidentals which are ornaments.
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mizushima
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Salut,
Désolé si ça a été signalé en anglais,
Harmony Assistant 9.9.5c
- Les soufflets de nuances ne s'affichent pas, comme si la boite texte contenait un blanc, du coup je mets Cresc. dans la boite texte, mais à certains endroits j'aimerais bien des soufflets ;
- pour les 8va la ligne pointillée ne s’affiche pas, du coup la lectrice ne sait pas jusqu’où c’est effectif et c’est bien ennuyeux, une fois imprimée, je devrai l’ajouter à la main.
Dans mon fichier joint, mesures 79 (81) à 81 (83) puis mesures 85 (87) à 91 (93) en survolant la partie de flûte il y a un outil double-flèche horizontale rouge qui s’affiche disant dans la bulle : « Cliquez dans les poignées pour changer la position ou la courbure de la liaison », hors avec l’outil Effacer je constate que ça concerne les ligatures entre les portées de la partie de piano, exemple : si j’efface au survol de la partie de flûte de la mesure 79 (81), ça supprime la ligature de la main droite piano, mesure 80 (82) 2e temps entre les 1ère et 2e doubles-croches, et si j’efface encore au même endroit, ça supprime les ligatures piano mesure 78 (80). Du coup je ne peux pas survoler la partie de flûte pour chercher s’il n’y a des nuances invisibles résiduelles. Je précise que ça ne concerne pas le coulé sur la mélodie de flûte à partir de 78 (80), car je l’ai supprimé pour voir et ça ne change rien.
Merci
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| « Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2022, 12:01am by mizushima » |
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #25 on: Jun 7th, 2022, 2:13pm » |
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Bonjour, le problème a été signalé et devrait être corrigé pour la prochaine version.
Il faut aller dans Partition > Configurer l'affichage > Nuances & ottave, et mettre le premier curseur à 1 au lieu de 0, ou le remettre à 3, la valeur "usine" par défaut.
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mizushima
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #26 on: Jun 7th, 2022, 5:15pm » |
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Est-ce le problème de la double-flèche horizontale rouge qui s’affiche disant dans la bulle : « Cliquez dans les poignées pour changer la position ou la courbure de la liaison » qui a été signalé et qui sera corrigé dans la prochaine version ?
Pour Nuances & 8va, une personne m'a répondu par courriel.
j'avais utilisé ces outils de nuance et d'8va dès que j'ai commencé à utiliser HA, et je n'avais jamais eu à régler ce paramètre, c'était par défaut, et j'ai bien pu importer mes réglages en passant de la version installée à la version portable, donc rien n'aurait dû changer, de surcroît si c'est un paramètre qui ne concerne que la partition, car elle est ancienne et je n'ai fait que la reprendre.
C'est ennuyeux si les nouvelles versions modifient les paramètres et qu'il faille refaire des réglages, et encore à condition de comprendre lequel a été modifier à notre insu.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2022, 5:25pm by mizushima » |
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Sylvain Machefert
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #27 on: Jun 7th, 2022, 7:33pm » |
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Ce problème de double flèche et courbure ne me dit rien.
Je crois qu'en 2006 j'avais dû mettre l'épaisseur minimale (0) pour les soufflets (et j'ignorais que ça le faisait pour les ottavas, quasiment jamais utilisées).
0 laissait bien les soufflets visibles.
Une modification a été faite je ne sais pas quand, j'avais déjà détecté le problème en 994, mais pas réussi à le localiser et donc le faire "reproduire" par les développeurs.
Ils vont considérer toutes les valeurs < 1 comme 1, car on ne devrait pas pouvoir masquer les lignes des soufflets, ou alors rétablir une épaisseur minimale lorsque la valeur est à zéro.
Et il suffit qu'on ait réglé l'affichage sur un de ses modèles favoris qu'on utilise très souvent, et beaucoup de fichiers sont "contaminés".
On connait la solution maintenant, et on attend la version corrective.
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #28 on: Aug 16th, 2022, 10:00pm » |
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During the installation of Harmony Assistant 9.9.5c on Linux Ubuntu 22.04 via the script harmony-assistant-9.9.5c.0.run, Harmony Assistant does not launch. Trying to run Harmony Assistant from the command line, the following error message is generated. Please advise, thank you:
$ /usr/bin/"Harmony Assistant"
X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
Major opcode of failed request: 1 (X_CreateWindow)
Value in failed request: 0x0
Serial number of failed request: 7
Current serial number in output stream: 12
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Re: Latest versions: Harmony Assistant 9.9.5 / Melody Assistant 7.9.5
« Reply #29 on: Sep 21st, 2022, 11:19am » |
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Je viens d'installer la nouvelle version.
Rien compris à la nouvelle liste des fichiers.
Pouvez vous m'expliquer pourquoi avoir remplacé la boîte de dialogue standard par une nouvelle boîte de dialogue qui manifestement va plus lentement et ne permet pas de naviguer dans l'arborescence aussi aisément que la boîte standard ?
Sinon je n'ai pas (encore) trouvé de problème 
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