Myriad Forum « Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ? »
 Welcome, Guest.
 You can read all messages, but to be able to post,
 please Login or Register.
Mar 7th, 2021, 7:17am 
   Myriad Forum
   Myriad HQ / Sound Bases
(Moderator: Forum Administrator)
   Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?
« Previous topic | Next topic »
Pages: 1 2 3  Reply | Notify of replies | Print
   Author  Topic: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  (Read 2588 times)
muddle
Board Senior Member
****





   


Posts: 412
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #15 on: Dec 1st, 2020, 1:05am »
Quote | Modify

Hah!  Bubu , certainly ,  if we ever get it working as it should
 
David
offline

You tube videos using HA or Virtual Singers:- https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMuddleglum/videos
pierruel
Board Master
*****




vieil amoureux de la flûte

   


Gender: male
Posts: 705
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #16 on: Dec 1st, 2020, 10:18pm »
Quote | Modify

Hi Muddle and Bubu,
I agree fully with the last observation of Muddle !  
I did some attempts but didn't follow accurately your procedure, Muddle, sorry. I hadn't saved anything from my former tests and begun everything from scratch.
I noticed that the "Configuration matérielle" uses the name "Sortie MIDI" what I understood as "Ports" MIDI, but it is probably wrong. Nevertheless I used Sorties # 1 to 4 to connect my 4 midiloops. Then in the "Instrument associé à la portée" I made following connexions:
flute: Port 1, channel 1
violin: POrt 2, channel 1
viola: Port 3, channel 1
cello: Port 4, channel 1
 
In Kontakt, in the MIDI panel, I connected
midiloop_flute to Port A 1
midiloop_violin to Port B 1
midiloop viola to Port C 1
midiloop cello to Port D 1
And I selected the same combinations of letters and numbers on each instrument window.
 
Result when playing the flute quartet in HA:
First run: flute all right, strings pizzicato except certain bars where I used the HA laws in order to switch to pizz. I removed the corresponding color to have all notes in black and the violin and viola were all right, except that they have sections to  be played arco and of course they continued pizz. I have to learn how to introduce Program Changes.
The cello played a special part: sections were all right, other were mute except some sounds of flute sustain; other were completely mute. I haven't any explanation.
 
I suppose that I have to take everythign from the beginning connecting the 4 insrtuments to the same Port, Sortie 1 for instance, and then the flute to channel 1, violin, 2, aso.  It's too late to begin now. You'll get another report tomorrow.
Thank you for your suggestions, I'l try and follow them more accurately.
Sleep well
Pierre
 
offline

Pierre Ruel
muddle
Board Senior Member
****





   


Posts: 412
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #17 on: Dec 1st, 2020, 11:07pm »
Quote | Modify

Hi Pierre ,  
 
A quick note that one way to add the' key switches' to HA is add a grace note to the first note  .. or to a note where you want to change.
When you edit the note properties the grace note menu lets you specify a note ( G0 or such) and use 'add 'to put it in the list above.  
 The velocity does not matter probably set to just 1.  But you have to use the offset  box to set the switch ahead of the audible note.   About - 24  I think I used. Gives time for the switch to occur before the note plays.
 
experiment with?
 
 david.
offline

You tube videos using HA or Virtual Singers:- https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMuddleglum/videos
pierruel
Board Master
*****




vieil amoureux de la flûte

   


Gender: male
Posts: 705
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #18 on: Dec 2nd, 2020, 4:51pm »
Quote | Modify

Hi Muddle,
I'm going on with the experiments.
1. Selecting the same unique Sortie MIDI (= MIDI Port) for the 4 instruments and then a different channel for each one is ok. It works perfectly. (The problems I had before were caused by the fact that the cello staff resulted from a "merge" of 2 staffs).
2. For the flute, choosing the menu Edit>Actions>Apply phrasing with 100 for the notes under one slur and 20 for the ones outside of the slur doesn't work: a half-note (blanche, isn't it ?) outside a slur sounds like a quarter or less.
3. As far as I applied it correctly, the grace notes don't introduce a change in the playing manner (pizz to sustain for instance). The method seams easy: add a grace note before the first note to be played the new manner and edit it, changing the note to a C0 for instance. Gosh Well !! I forgot the Velocity and Duration. I'll try again. But we go forwards !  
Thank you for advices
Friendly
Pierre
offline

Pierre Ruel
pierruel
Board Master
*****




vieil amoureux de la flûte

   


Gender: male
Posts: 705
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #19 on: Dec 2nd, 2020, 6:21pm »
Quote | Modify

Hi again,
I didn't succeed with the keyswitches. Grace notes doesn't operate and I tried another solution when the first note to be played with the new articulation stays after a pause; I replaced that pause with a normal note outside of the ambitus of the instrument (corresponding with the keyswitch notes given by Kontakt) but it didn't work either.  
I don't see what else I should try.
Thank you for any help.
Pierre
offline

Pierre Ruel
muddle
Board Senior Member
****





   


Posts: 412
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #20 on: Dec 3rd, 2020, 3:54am »
Quote | Modify

Pierre,  
I am impressed how you have sorted it all out yourself .
 
I did a re-test of key  switches  as described  before and  they are definitely working on my  player.   A negative delay of about -11 seems okay.  Probably even less would work
I doubt it makes a difference but give it good velocity..  its going to be silent  in Amadeus anyway.
 
I'm not sure what actual note HA sends when you specify  say, note D1.
HA has  midi note names with  C4 as middle C .
I think I read somewhere that Amadeus has  C3 as middle  C.
If so,  this could be a reason for  lack of response to HA key-switch notes.  
 
You can test this.  
  Load  a staff with some music  into HA and set  it to Amadeus .  
Select one note  and  open the edit for it.  
 
The idea is to alter the note value in the edit  box and press "try" while watching the Amadeus keyboard  react.    
Step  down the  notes until you reach the  coloured  key-switches.
They should lock down when  they are reached
 
Note the value of the note HA sent for that key and the others remaining  
 
I'm interested to know if they are the same as the Amadeus official note name/numbers for the key-switch..  
If they are different from the official  ones ... you will have to use HA's  instead .
They would probably be the same but an octave higher.  D1 instead  of D0.
 
 If the notes are the same in HA and Amadeus you will now have proved at least, that the grace notes  SHOULD be working.   But it would have to be  something else stopping them.  
 
David.
« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2020, 5:13am by muddle » offline

You tube videos using HA or Virtual Singers:- https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMuddleglum/videos
muddle
Board Senior Member
****





   


Posts: 412
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #21 on: Dec 3rd, 2020, 4:17am »
Quote | Modify

The slur yes,  there is problem with the difference in VST response to a frequency bend.   My Kontakt strings will bend up to an octave with the frequency curve.  But not with HA's' standard bend.  My kontakt  strings have an adjustment of bend response but even at max it is about half HA.  
 
I was going to  adjust and improve the the glissando script to do the same thing.
But alas I discover, sometime in the previous  HA versions the change you put into the frequency curve has dislocated its audible  effect .. to about one note before.    Auugh!  no use at all.
 
  I guess it needs a bug report
 
Well ,  such is life . The separate note slur can sound reasonable?
 
sorry for that info.  
 
David.
« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2020, 5:10am by muddle » offline

You tube videos using HA or Virtual Singers:- https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMuddleglum/videos
pierruel
Board Master
*****




vieil amoureux de la flûte

   


Gender: male
Posts: 705
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #22 on: Dec 3rd, 2020, 1:20pm »
Quote | Modify

Hi Muddle,
I see that you are a "night bird" (or do you live in America ?).
Ive made one test at a time: I copied the violin part of my flute quartet on a separate staff as a test-staff, added a grace note to the first note just one note lower the main note and clicked on "essayer" in the edit window.  
I managed to have Amadeus/Kontakt keyboard visible (not so easy) and was able to see the reaction of it.  
When the grace note was in the ambitus of the violin, I heard it cleary et saw the corresponding key pressed down. I saw it all the same with grace notes outside the violin's ambitus but with no sound.  
When I went down to the keyswitches notes on the keyboard, the program changes happened marvelously but with an important detail: On Kontakt display with Amadeus loaded, the default keyswitches are sustain C0, staccato C#0,... pizz F0 aso but in fact the changes happened for sustain C1, staccato C#1, aso. (and nothing happened with a zero instead of a 1)
In Amadeus display you can change that setup replacing all 0 figures through 1 figures (and 7 and -1 figures, but no other numbers). It fits with your mention of Amadeus using a different note as central C, I believe.
I think it's advisable to set Amadeus figures to 1 in order to fit the standard position of central C, isn't it ?
For the time beeing, that's all folks !
I'll continue doing the same test on the complete strings parts of the quartett and will be back.
Have a fine day.
Pierre
offline

Pierre Ruel
muddle
Board Senior Member
****





   


Posts: 412
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #23 on: Dec 3rd, 2020, 7:02pm »
Quote | Modify

Thanks for  info Pierre.  
 I'm about as far as possible from the wonders of European culture in New Zealand.  Still, in these days of google you can walk the streets from here.  
 
David
 
offline

You tube videos using HA or Virtual Singers:- https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMuddleglum/videos
pierruel
Board Master
*****




vieil amoureux de la flûte

   


Gender: male
Posts: 705
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #24 on: Dec 3rd, 2020, 10:27pm »
Quote | Modify

Hello everybody,
As a perfect Newbie on MIDI issues, I ask here a very basic double question. In the case of a multiple articulation change, let's say if a violin has to play alternately legato, pizzicato, and again legato, aso, do I need to cancel the first keyswitch (in my example the one introducing the legato) before setting the pizzicato keyswitch or not ? Idem when changing later from the pizzicato to the legato ?  
The second part of the question is: if a "cancel" instruction is necessary, which is its keyswitch expression ?
I browsed a lot about both issues but found nothing. I supposed there was somewhere a "bible" of MIDI instructions like program changes but I didn't find anything lake that.
Very thankful in advance for any advice.
regards
Pierre
offline

Pierre Ruel
pierruel
Board Master
*****




vieil amoureux de la flûte

   


Gender: male
Posts: 705
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #25 on: Dec 3rd, 2020, 10:51pm »
Quote | Modify

Bonsoir,
Essayons de généraliser. Il s'agit ci-dessus de transmettre à un "player" (Kontakt Player) des modes de jeu HA sous forme de "signaux" MIDI. Bien.
Première question: parmi tous les paramétrages qui permettent d'améliorer la qualité de l'interprétation dans HA, tous produisent-ils des "signaux" MIDI ?
Je pense aux courbes de paramètres associés à la portée, aux "effets" accessibles en double-cliquant sur une note, aux réglages possibles grâce aux icônes de modification de la vélocité et de l'appui, aux indications de dynamiques et de nuances via l'outil nuances de la palette maître, liste non exhaustive.
Seconde question: lesquels de ces messages ou signaux sont-ils correctement interprétés par les "players" à disposition: Kontakt, Reaper, Aria (GPO), etc. etc.
Pour le moment, sous le titre "Qui utilise GPO avec HA j'essaie avec l'aide de Muddle de voir ce qu'il en est avec la banque Amadeus Symphony Orchestra, avec l'espoir que quelques principes seront applicables à d'autres banques de sons (j'ai celle de GPO pour commencer). Tout en gardant comme base Harmony Assistant.
Si certain.e.s d'entre vous
- sont en mesure d'enrichir l'information de base (première question)
- ont fait des expériences positives ou au moins instructives dans ce domaine,  
je serai ravi d'en prendre connaissance.
Merci d'avance
Cordialement
Pierre
offline

Pierre Ruel
bubu42
Board Master
*****





   


Gender: male
Posts: 9966
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #26 on: Dec 3rd, 2020, 11:21pm »
Quote | Modify

Je me souviens des expériences menées par J.P. Verpeaux pour connecter un orgue virtuel à HA. Dans le processus, il y avait des commandes MDI utilisant les Program Changes pour modifier la registration. J'avais utilisé certains de ses scripts, et ils doivent contenir certains éléments de réponse.
Maintenant, pour savoir ce qui est envoyé réellement par HA sur les sorties MIDI, il faudrait pouvoir avoir un logiciel d'analyse. En faisant des recherches, j'ai trouvé un freeware sous Windows. Je vais essayer de l'installer sur mon système et voir ce qu'on peut en faire... A suivre.
P.S. Je suis ce fil avec le même intérêt que les feuilletons dans les journaux de mon enfance ! Tous les jours, il y a du nouveau. Bravo !
offline

Harmony Assistant - Ubuntu + Wine et Windows XP sur machine virtuelle. VS, OMeR, PDF2M
pierruel
Board Master
*****




vieil amoureux de la flûte

   


Gender: male
Posts: 705
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #27 on: Dec 3rd, 2020, 11:41pm »
Quote | Modify

Ben oui, Bubu, j'ai toujours dit: place aux jeunes: j'ai 86 balais.
Cordialement
Pierre
P.S. Merci pour la piste Verpeaux. On verra demain.
offline

Pierre Ruel
muddle
Board Senior Member
****





   


Posts: 412
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #28 on: Dec 4th, 2020, 5:12am »
Quote | Modify

Hi Pierre,  
When you set a new keyswitch it necessarily stops the previous one .  
 
If you set a trill, at the end  of it,  you set the next note back to sustain.  
If you have a string of staccato notes  you set back to sustain at the end of them.Or to whatever articulation you want next,
 
Some libraries,  like my solo strings, offer other keyswitch options.
 
1.  the standard  one ...switch on till the end ( or until you send another key switch.)
 
 2 switch just for the one note, then go back to the one used before
 
3. switch while the key is held down ... i.e extend it's pressure time.  Only then it will go back to what was set before.
 
But I just use it in the first way.  As I think most do
 
==========
 
HA's  midi output sends volume CC  which Kontakt  does respond to .  .
And notes pitch  up and down with  frequency curve changes.
But it does not respond to treble/ bass etc.  
Items like trills can be sent and will play. Avoids using the keyswitch method.  And gives more flexibility of speed etc,
 
If you use a modulation wheel most libraries will use that to set the volume and timbre of the instrument.  
 
Amadeus can be set to use that method, and HA can send midi CC modulation on a curve to control volume/timbre but you have to hand enter the data in the curve.  
There is a script somewhere on the forum  to enter a curve  in live play...with an external keyboard modwheel  if you wanted to try.  
 
hmm. It should be possible for an expert to make a script that has a graphic "wheel"  or perhaps better a simple vertical slider  to add the CC modulation to a curve as it plays.  
 
 -------------------------------------------------
 
I don't know whether GPO ( Aria) is responsive to sound volumes the way Amadeus is.
 
 
The Amadeus manual has much information about adjusting instruments and effects and so forth.  
  
But at this point Pierre is the one who has Amadeus and GPO and can explore them both in full.
 
David.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2020, 8:08pm by muddle » offline

You tube videos using HA or Virtual Singers:- https://www.youtube.com/user/TheMuddleglum/videos
pierruel
Board Master
*****




vieil amoureux de la flûte

   


Gender: male
Posts: 705
Re: Qui utilise Garritan Personal Orchestra avec HA ?  
« Reply #29 on: Dec 4th, 2020, 5:59pm »
Quote | Modify

Dear David,
Thank you for your help because after having put my hands in the engine following your messages, I begin to undestand something from the user's manuals, ASO or Kontakt ! Before that many words didn't point to  any fact, idea or sensation ! But I spent a heap of time looking to ASO users manual and its translation (with the help of Google who isn't obviously a fan of MAO !) and did not much about my tests. Just one thing for the time beeing: You wrote
Quote:
When you set a new keyswitch it necessarily stops the previous one .  

With my system it doesn't work like that and I didn't find out the reason why. Next step: I shall register on ASO  forum and ask exprimented users for information.
From now I'll be away from my machine and will recover it  next Monday. Have a fin week end.
Friendly regards
Pierre
offline

Pierre Ruel
Pages: 1 2 3  Reply | Notify of replies | Print

« Previous topic | Next topic »

« Myriad Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.1!
YaBB © 2000-2002,
Xnull. All Rights Reserved.

Top of page
Legal information Last update:  (c) Myriad