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Feb 27th, 2024, 5:51am 
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Paulius55
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"th" pronunciation  
« on: Feb 24th, 2023, 5:16pm »
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I am trying to find a way to get the virtual singers to pronounce the soft th correctly as in through or throw. In playback this sounds as true and trow respectively. It is easy to get the hard version of th , such as in the or thou or though, to sound correctly buy using a D instead of the th, so Dur, Dee and Dow sound right for the, thee and thou. Is there anyway of  getting closer approximation to the right sound?
 
I have just noticed on the SAMPA page that a capital T may work as it suggests TIn should sound like thin. I will try it.
« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2023, 5:18pm by Paulius55 » offline
Paulius55
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Re: "th" pronunciation  
« Reply #1 on: Feb 24th, 2023, 5:44pm »
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No luck with the SAMPA method, still sounds like "True" instead of "Through"
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ANdre_B
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Re: "th" pronunciation  
« Reply #2 on: Feb 24th, 2023, 6:05pm »
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Paulius, I tried in a small example, and find a significan difference between "through" and "true".  
 
Now, this might also depend on the active voice. And perhaps the audio system...  
 
Would you attach a .myr example?
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
Paulius55
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Re: "th" pronunciation  
« Reply #3 on: Mar 4th, 2023, 4:32pm »
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I will try and find a suitable sample.
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Re: "th" pronunciation   Paul_Darnell_Test.myr
« Reply #4 on: Mar 4th, 2023, 5:00pm »
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This is an short excerpt from Tears In Heaven, which I have prepared for my choir as a learning track. The "Through" in bar 3 has a harder "T" than I would like.
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Re: "th" pronunciation   Paul_Darnell_Test-AB.myr
« Reply #5 on: Mar 4th, 2023, 5:28pm »
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Well, your settings are certainly OK. I clearly hear the difference between through and true.  
Now, what the actual sound should be, might be a matter of taste, regional use, or so. Making it more this or more that can (theoretically) be achieved by altering the fragment content.  
 
I have made a slight change in the file I'm attaching now. It's on T1 staff only. Does it meet better your expectation?  
 
As of a general reply, I welcome our friends who are native English speakers to comment on this.
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
Paulius55
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Re: "th" pronunciation  
« Reply #6 on: Mar 6th, 2023, 5:06pm »
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I can hear a slight difference in your version but whether it better enough to change all of the instances I am not sure. I realise that the English soft "th" is a difficult sound to make, made by pressing the tongue against the upper front teeth and exhaling. Some humans even have a problem with it!
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Re: "th" pronunciation  
« Reply #7 on: Mar 6th, 2023, 5:32pm »
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Well, I continued to check further in the mean time.  
 
There are two IPA symbols for these sounds, one which is something like a delta or an icelandic letter (sampa D) and the other like a theta (sampa T). When the one or the other, there isn't really a rule, and e.g. "this" is with a D and "thin" with a T. Respective fragments are +DH and +TH.  
 
Do you know forvo? You enter a word, and you can listen to many registrations of it. There are 21 samples for "through"...  
which does not mean there are all significantly different...
 
By editing the fragments, HA's pronunciation can be "improved", but to what?  
 
Perhaps you could tell us which one(s) of these examples seem best to you?  
 
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André Baeck, de retour en Belgique après 12 ans passés dans le Gard.
Windows 11, HA 997e (et précédents)
PaulL
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Re: "th" pronunciation  
« Reply #8 on: Mar 20th, 2023, 7:33pm »
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VS is by no means perfect.  I don't always recognize the words it generates unless I am also reading the lyrics.
 
There is room for improvement in the generation of plosives, but VS is amazing enough as it is; I don't expect miracles.#
 
On my system, I hear a distinct difference between #D, #T, #tS, and #dZ.  Do they sound like a real human being?  No.  Are they recognizably distinct?  Yes.
 
One can try messing with the formants, but I've never had any luck doing so.
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2023, 7:34pm by PaulL » offline

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