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Nov 22nd, 2017, 9:11pm 
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   Reverse stem directions needed
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Lagaffe
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #15 on: Sep 8th, 2017, 5:05pm »
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on Sep 8th, 2017, 4:14pm, bubu42 wrote:

3- I type the lyrics (usually only once if possible)

 
So only one voice will sing ?
I think you need lyrics for all staves.
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danleighton
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #16 on: Sep 8th, 2017, 5:07pm »
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Very helpful. This is basically what I do as well... I just wish there was a way to do it without having to score everything on separate staffs
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bubu42
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #17 on: Sep 8th, 2017, 6:41pm »
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on Sep 8th, 2017, 5:05pm, Lagaffe wrote:

So only one voice will sing ? I think you need lyrics for all staves.
True, but in that particular case, I'm only interested in printing and page layout. When the lyrics match on all voices (or are very close to matching), I only use one lyrics line. If they don't, I use lyrics on all staves. With HA it's quite easy to set the lyrics position locally (on each line) and I can arrange rather complicated scores (one line if they all sing the same words at the same time, then a line above and a line under the staff,or one line for S/A and one for T/B, etc.)
Of course, if the file is meant for pre-rehearsing or checking the audio, not only do I set lyrics on all voices, but I usually type on four separate staves.
Anyway, I still think that using merged staves is the best solution when two voices are present on the same staff.
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bubu42
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #18 on: Sep 8th, 2017, 6:43pm »
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on Sep 8th, 2017, 5:07pm, danleighton wrote:
Very helpful. This is basically what I do as well... I just wish there was a way to do it without having to score everything on separate staffs

Well, there is still the old (but awkward) solution : toggle from one voice to the other using the red/blue triangle of the icon bar.
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danleighton
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #19 on: Sep 8th, 2017, 6:54pm »
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True. But that's very tedious as you can't attach a shortcut...
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PaulL
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #20 on: Sep 12th, 2017, 4:55pm »
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on Sep 8th, 2017, 4:14pm, bubu42 wrote:
I do quite a lot of choral work (SATB, mainly). This what I do most of the time :
1- I create one staff per voice (2 in treble key Soprano/Alto, 2 in bass key Tenor/Bass)
2- I enter the notes voice by voice and I make sure that the stem tool (last small tool, first line, in the palette "note display tools") is set either to up or down. Anyway, it's easy to select a whole staff and simply use a shortcut :  Ctrl+Alt+4 (stems up) or Ctrl+Alt+1 (stems down)
3- I type the lyrics (usually only once if possible)
4- I merge the staves two by two (Sop/Alt & Ten/Bass)
5- I set the brace and barlines and adjust the lyrics line.
The only issue happens when two notes are at the same time position on merged staves and they clash with each other (at a second interval, like F/G or C/D) To sort this out quickly I use the script I sent to the forum years ago. It allows me to trace all the clashes and nudge the offending notes. So far, I've never been able to automatically re-locate the notes with the best precision, but the script allows me to fine tune "by hand", at the zoom factor I need.

 
This is the procedure I follow, because it gives the most control over the score with the least effort.  I can't imagine trying to cope with two melodic lines on one staff.  I would simply add to Bubu's list that I usually find it easier to enter notes by creating an .ABC file first and importing it, as I find all other methods tedious in the extreme.
 
With each melodic line on a separate staff, adjusting the stem directions becomes a trivial task.  I do the same for keyboard parts, usually organ:  manual staves I & II for the right hand, and manual III and pedal staves for the left hand.  (Or Right A & B and Left A & B for piano scores.)
 
Bubu, what is the name of the script you created?  I would find it extremely helpful.  I looked through the Scripts menu quickly and didn't spot it.
 
Perhaps I should make this a separate topic, but I am fussy about slurs and find editing each slur to also be tedious.  If any one can explain the default settings and their effects, I would be most grateful.  I have experimented with them, but so far have found no way to get exactly what I want.  (Not only that, but starting this time of year, I am getting ready for a big concert in December and have little extra time for experimentation.)
« Last Edit: Sep 12th, 2017, 4:56pm by PaulL » offline

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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #21 on: Sep 12th, 2017, 5:02pm »
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I must agree with you on slurs and ties. Immensely irritating getting them right. When so much of the software is so good, I find it frustrating not to be able to get them to do what I want!
 
As to doing two voices on the same stave, for those of us who are not particularly brilliant readers, and or dyslexic... having the chord in the same eyeline is very helpful for spotting whether you have notated the intervals correctly...
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PaulL
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #22 on: Sep 12th, 2017, 5:27pm »
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Well, yes, there is that!  Cheers.
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bubu42
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #23 on: Sep 12th, 2017, 5:56pm »
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on Sep 12th, 2017, 4:55pm, PaulL wrote:

Bubu, what is the name of the script you created?  I would find it extremely helpful.  I looked through the Scripts menu quickly and didn't spot it.

I think the latest version should be here. But it's an old story and I can't tell you right now where the archive will install it (somewhere in the scripts menu list). I think I called it "anti-collide". Quote:

Perhaps I should make this a separate topic, but I am fussy about slurs and find editing each slur to also be tedious.  If any one can explain the default settings and their effects, I would be most grateful.  I have experimented with them, but so far have found no way to get exactly what I want.  (Not only that, but starting this time of year, I am getting ready for a big concert in December and have little extra time for experimentation.)

I should have something that can manage the slurs in a sort of batch process. The problem is that I made the stuff years ago and I must get my hands on it in the mess of my hard disk. What settings would you like the script to  handle ?
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PaulL
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #24 on: Sep 12th, 2017, 6:23pm »
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Merci, Maître Bubu!
 
Thanks for the script, I will check it out when I have time.  It should save quite a bit of effort.
 
As for slurs, I would like to specify defaults for the starting and ending vertical and horizontal positions for various situations.
 
In most cases, I prefer the slur to begin and end over the centers of the respective notes, but I don't like the look of a slur that crosses the stem.  So a script would need to take into account whether the slur is up or down, and whether the stems are up or down, as well.  Furthermore, when notes are beamed, i like the slur to begin and end above (below) the beam and over the stem.  So yet another complication.
 
Furthermore, at the scale I generally use (standard-sized staves and 80% of full size), if a note lies on a space, the best vertical height for the slur is 6 above or below the note, but if the note lies on a line the best vertical height is 9.  And not only that, but one needs to take into account the intersection of the slur with the staff lines, in order to get the best effect.
 
Since I am fairly lazy, you can see why I've never tried to put all that into a script!  However, a script that would do the bulk of the work would greatly minimize the amount of fine-tuning needed.
 
If a lot of ties share the same characteristics, it is of course possible to edit them all at once with the File>General>Slurs dialogue box, but it always seems, in the scores I produce, that there are never enough alike to make that satisfactory, so I usually end up doing it all by hand.  And as I mentioned, I don't see any way to adjust the Score Setup parameters to get what I am looking for.
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bubu42
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #25 on: Sep 12th, 2017, 6:27pm »
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OK. I see...  
I think I need to improve that script, probably adding a lot of "if...then" clauses !  
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PaulL
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #26 on: Sep 12th, 2017, 7:33pm »
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Please don't trouble yourself unduly.  I don't really mind doing all that editing, it's just that in a perfect world . . . . mais le monde va comme il veut, et non pas comme nous le voudrions.
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danleighton
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #27 on: Sep 14th, 2017, 12:03am »
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Ah! I have just realised I missed something in sbarrera's info about applying stem changes to particular note ranges. I had not clocked that before. It doesn't help with my SATB on 2 staves problem, but it solved another problem I had later! So thank you sbarrera!
 
on Sep 6th, 2017, 7:18am, sbarrera wrote:
This is a very old question in the forum. I finally found an answer posted in 2001, 16 years ago!. In modern HA versions the process would be:
 
If you need, for example, all notes above C5 to have stems down and lower notes to have stems up:
 
1. Select the staff (staves) you want to edit
2. Edit>Appearence>General...
3. In the window that opens select General in the top options (It is the default, I guess)
4. Click in the small square at the left of Stem:, and click the option Down in front of it
5. In the top options select Target
6. Select Apply only to notes and type D5-C8 in the white rectangle in front of the option
7. Press OK
 
You will need to repeat the process to put up stems in all notes below (C1-C5) changing steps 4. and 6.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #28 on: Sep 14th, 2017, 4:19pm »
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Dan:
 
I am everything but an expert in HA; I keep learning everyday. I found the answer to my question digging in the forum, and I am glad you found it useful. By the way, the person who gave the answer in 2001 was Esmeralda Weatherwax.
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danleighton
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Re: Reverse stem directions needed  
« Reply #29 on: Sep 14th, 2017, 4:21pm »
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No worries! I just realised I had not been as polite to you as I would have hoped and wanted to make sure you knew I appreciated the time and effort you had paid in finding the answer!
 
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