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May 24th, 2019, 9:48pm 
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   Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch
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eduardo
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Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« on: Oct 17th, 2018, 6:32pm »
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Sorry if this topic has already been discussed. I noticed that whenever a syllable countaining the "u" vowel sounding as in Spanish or Latin is in a high pitch (i.e. Re5 or higher), its volume is very low as compared with other syllables. If the pitch is lower, the volume becomes normal. To correct this, I used to write "o" instead of "u", and the volume remains normal.
I wonder if this has been noticed by other VS users, and if there is another better solution than the one that I use...
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Andre_B
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #1 on: Oct 17th, 2018, 8:26pm »
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Eduardo,  
 
We could all try to recreate this, but it would be more efficient if you would attach a sample .myr (or .mus) file showing the problem. Then we would be sure to check in the same environment as yours.
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André Baeck, Belge vivant dans le Gard
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eduardo
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch   Lux__terna__example_.myr
« Reply #2 on: Oct 17th, 2018, 10:41pm »
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Thank you, Andre_B. A small file (myr) is attached. In staff 1, the syllables LUX and LU sound much lower that the surrounding syllables. However, if we change LUX and LU for LOX and LO (staff 2), they sound with the right volume (volume has been adjusted to be even in every note).
Please be aware that this is even worse if the notes are higher in the staff; as the notes get lower, this problem seems to disappear.
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PaulL
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #3 on: Oct 17th, 2018, 11:13pm »
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I don't know what causes the problem, but a quick work-around in the interim is to select the notes in question and use Edit > Action > Change velocity.
 
In your sample score, I bumped the velocity of the two D's assigned the word "lux" up to 100 from 64, and that seemed to even out the relative volumes of the syllables.  I suspect that a different velocity might be required for different pitches.
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eduardo
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #4 on: Oct 17th, 2018, 11:19pm »
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Thank you, PaulL. Yes, sometimes I also do this to override the problem, but anyway it is cumbersome as well, since you have to change it individually when it happens.  javascript:cry()
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #5 on: Oct 17th, 2018, 11:34pm »
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You should probably notify the Guillon brothers of the problem, in order to get it fixed.
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #6 on: Oct 18th, 2018, 10:44am »
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I had an ear on this. It happens with the "French OU" (+UUF) and with the "English OO" (+UU). Not sure how to check with the Spanish one.  
 
My impression is that this was done on purpose, to reflect real practice. A high "U" with the same velocity might appear as garish (French "criard").  
 
 
Perhaps this capping is only a bit too much.
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eduardo
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: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #7 on: Oct 18th, 2018, 10:49am »
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Andre_B, I sent an e-mail to Olivier Guillion and this is his reply:
 
The problem with close vowels on high-pitch notes isn't related to Virtual Singer but to singing in general.
There are several references on the Internet about how a singer can alter the vowels to make them be hearable on high-pitch notes.
These techniques are a bit complex for being implemented in VS, our expertise in this field being quite weak. However that issue could be addressed in the future if we can find more references or get some help from professional  
singers.
 
In the meantime, you can either:
 
- Increase the power on such vowels, by double-clicking the note with the lasso tool and increase its "velocity"
 
or
 
- use "O" instead of "U" in high pitch. To avoid seeing this phonetization, you can write it between brackets. For instance, write "Lux[Lox]". It will display "Lux" and sing "Lox".
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch   Lux__terna__example_AB.myr
« Reply #8 on: Oct 18th, 2018, 2:33pm »
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Hello Eduardo,  
 
I will not argue on Olivier's reply, he knows that matter much more than I do.  
 
 
The bypasses he suggests require several, if not many, individual adjustments.  
 
I would not support the "lox" alternative anyway. The text is "lux", not "lox" - though in some languages the o tends to be pronounced as u, but I think it's more Portuguese than Spanish.    
 
 
I found I had a good result with the fragment used in English for what they commonly write "oo" but has actually a "u" sound (good, poor, etc).
 
Please listen to the attached, and tell me if that suits better your expectation. If it does, I'll explain how to implement.
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eduardo
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #9 on: Oct 18th, 2018, 2:53pm »
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Hello again, Andre_B
 
Your bypass solution sounds very well, better than the "O" alternative. But ¿how do you do it? Because I didn't find any hidden text between [  ] brackets in the attached file.
I will appreciete it if you can tell me how to do it.
Thanks.
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch   Soprano_U.zip
« Reply #10 on: Oct 18th, 2018, 4:36pm »
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Eduardo,  
 
This would have been possible using a quite long [#+xxx] syllable overide wherever the fix is needed, since I didn't find a sampa equivalent.  
 
The trick is to alter the Classical/Soprano voice (which you used) by storing as "UUF" the actual content of fragment "OO".  
 
I'm attaching a zip file containing the patching .prv and in install text.      
 
 
I still need to do some research to be able to explain the hierarchy of settings, by now it's only by experience.  
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eduardo
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #11 on: Oct 18th, 2018, 5:24pm »
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Thank you! It works wonderful. It will very very useful for me.
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bubu42
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Re: Volume of "u" vowel when singing in high pitch  
« Reply #12 on: Oct 18th, 2018, 9:13pm »
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There is an interesting post on Myriad's blog. Apparently the issue has been spotted and it could be addressed in a future version.
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